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Inscrit le: 18 Juin 2011
Messages: 27 620
|Posté le: Lun 4 Juil - 22:48 (2011) Sujet du message: l'enlèvement/The rapture
|THE MAN WHO COINED THE PHRASE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE
The Eyes Are The Window To The Soul
A picture is worth a thousand words—and the eyes are the window to the soul. Most people that have seen this picture see something not right, something immediately touches their soul—a chill. Well, this is John Nelson Darby, the man who coined the phrase, “pre-tribulation rapture”. Before you continue, I want you to sit back for a moment, and just look into this man's eyes.
While Yahshua said that we are not to judge by the outward appearance, He also said the eyes are the window to the soul, and as you'll discover, John Nelson Darby was not all that he was cracked up to be—and had one of mankind's most wicked employers and associations.
He was leader of the Brethren Church, of which Edward Crowley was a member and preacher. Does that name, Crowley sound familiar? It should to every Christian. Edward Crowley was the father of Aleister Crowley, the worlds most well known satanist.
John Nelson Darby, in the 1860's was put on the payroll of the British East India company, and sent to America for the specific purpose of weakening the strong faith of American Christians. When these la la land doctrines were picked up by the dubious lawyer, C I Scofield, in his Reference Bible in 1909, the strong delusion of this abominable theology shifted into high gear.
It is claimed that Darby was a lawyer and as such a member of the secret order of Freemasonry. His interest in Bible prophecy came out of what he learned in the lodge from the Jewish interpretation of the ages known as Cabalism. Being an alleged "Christian Mason" he arranged Cabalist theories with prophecy until he forged a new interpretation, unheard of in any previous age of Church history.
Before the "Left Behind" series big money maker, was Hal Lindsey's The Late Great Planet Earth, which was a record-breaking best seller in the 1970s. Like Lindsey, LaHay's big money maker series perpetuates a huge misunderstanding of scrïpture. LaHaye's secret rapture is not only ridiculous; but, there is not a single scrïpture verse IN CONTEXT to support the pre-trib la la land, of those who simply refuse the clear teaching of the Word of God on the subject.
When Christ returns every eye shall see Him. Jesus said 4 times in John 6 that the resurrection is on the Last Day, like Paul said, at the Last trump. Jesus said, He that shall endure to the END the same shall be saved. No matter what the fuds. thuds, duds, prophets, and poohbahs say - the END is the END, not 7 years before the end, or 3.5 years before the end. The end is the end, and Jesus said He sends His angels for His elect, at the END, or IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation.
The success of the "Left Behind" series is a testimony of how THE FAITH, the common salvation, for which we were to earnestly contend, has been corrupted. The corruption has been done to make fortunes for men who make merchandise of the souls of men who buy their perverse doctrines. Just as Peter said, through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
How this bizarre, unscrïptural doctrine has come into the church and now held as Christianity's sacred-cow endtime doctrine and hope is beyond any rational thinking Christian's comprehension, but the effect of this well planned, satanically originated doctrine is quite evident; it will cause many Christians to fall and denounce Christianity as a fraud—when it does not happen— and they find themselves face to face with the antichrist/beast which they were told they would not have to suffer.
The true salvation of God's people is not in this literal doctrine of devils, rapture theory, as you now can see by it's very origin, but in the outpouring of the latter rain of the Holy Spirit— please, be in prayer about this, because you need the truth, as these are the days of its manifestation.
Related Messages :
The Christian Church: Left Blind By Left Behind
The Original Vision That Inspired The Rapture Theory
Prophecy Regarding The Rapture
L'ENLÈVEMENT - AVANT, PENDANT OU APRÈS?
L'Enlèvement est un événement majeur, une prohétie à venir pour le peuple de Dieu. Plusieurs se posent des questions sur ce sujet. Serons-nous enlevés avant, pendant ou après les tribulations? Il est bon pour chacun de nous de savoir ces choses car tous, nous serons confrontés à cet événement mondial dans très peu de temps.
Il est important de savoir que le Nouvel Ordre Mondial a aussi un plan concernant l'Enlèvement afin de faire passer cet événement comme venant de Dieu. Nous avons vu dans l'article précédent que John Nelson Darby était un franc-maçon et que ses liens étroits avec Edward Crowley, le père de Aleister Crowley, un homme connu pour sa position de grand sataniste. Regardons de plus près ce qu'il en est afin de ne pas être pris au dépourvu lorsque ces événements arriveront.
Le mouvement du Nouvel-Âge et le gouvernement mondial ont consacré beaucoup de recherche et d'attention à l'utilisation d'images holographiques. Ceux-ci sont des images tridimensionnelles créées dans l'espace par l'utilisation de rayons laser. David Spangler a dit à une réunion à Southfield, au Michigan, le 1 février 1982, que des projecteurs de rayon laser avaient été installés pour l'utilisation à venir sur la Cathédrale Épiscopale de Divine de St-Jean , à New York City.
Des satellites peuvent aussi être utilisés pour projeter une image holographique tridimensionnelle «viewable» jusqu'à un tiers de la population de la terre. Il ont même la technologie pour faire parler l'image dans la langue des secteurs auxquels il est rayonné. ["[i]Les dangers Cachés de l'Arc-en-ciel[/i]", pg. 24, a publié en 1983]
Cette technologie qui sera utilisée pour séduire les populations en leur faisant croire à des miracles qui ne serait en fait qu'une image 3D de l'Antichrist que chacun pourra entendre dans sa propre langue. Cette technologie pourrait également être utilisée contre l'église chrétienne avant et pendant l'apparition de l'Antichrist. Quel serait donc le but de ce programme? Apoc. 13:13-15.
De jeter la panique, la confusion et le désespoir dans les rangs de leurs ennemis mortels : les chrétiens régénérés fondamentaux. Plusieurs chrétiens authentiques sauvés seront énormément rendus perplexes quand l'Enlèvement qu'ils attendent avec espoir et patiemment arrivera et qu'ils n'auront pas été pris ou enlevés. Au moins pour un court temps, les chrétiens seront très secoués après que ce faux Enlèvement aura lieu car ils penseront que celui-ci était véritable.
Leur foi sera évaluée comme jamais auparavant. Cette situation sèmera une grande discorde dans les rangs des véritables chrétiens. Quand les chrétiens authentiques sauvés découvriront que leur pasteur est toujours sur la terre aussi, plusieurs deviendront très fâchés. Après tout, ils avaient suivi son enseignement, son avancement et son conseil, avec le résultat net et apparent étant que Jésus-Christ les a rejeté aussi bien que leur pasteur.
Les Papes qui ont travaillé à cette unité planétaire et qui ont été des joueurs de premier plan, puisqu'ils ont été à la tête du CMÉ. Le pape se rendra à Jérusalem pour confirmer l'unité des trois grandes religions ; juives, chrétiennes et musulmanes. Une grande partie des croyants perdront la foi véritable pour avoir accepter une conception erronée des prophéties de la Bible tel qu'enseignée par plusieurs sur l'Enlèvement avant l'arrivée de l'Antichrist.
Des vendus au Nouvel Ordre du Monde tel que Tim Laye et Jerry B. Jenkis et d'un homme comme David Wilkerson qui a changé de camp ces dernières années et qui ont séduit des milliers de croyants avec cette doctrine pré-tribulationniste (moi-même, j'y ai cru pendant longtemps), feront que beaucoup de ceux qui y croient encore seront complètement bouleversés quand ces événements arriveront.
Le but ultime est d'essayer de causer à autant de chrétiens que possible de perdre leur foi et les amener dans cette nouvelle dispensation qui prend de plus en plus place ; cela va probablement arriver parce que beaucoup de chrétiens ont été menés pour accepter les faux enseignements concernant quelques prophéties de Bible. Le but serait de causer la perte de la foi véritable, au point même que plusieurs se suicideront. Le faux Enlèvement secouera la foi populaire comme aucun autre événement dans l'histoire du monde.
L'Antichrist exigerait que chaque nouveau né (spirituel) prenne une position ferme sur la doctrine de la Bible qui déclare explicitement que tous ceux qui ont confiance en Jésus-Christ seront sauvés. [Actes 16:31; John 3:16-18 dans les Mots propres de Jésus; Romains 10:9] et ce même après avoir accepté la micro-puce, la marque de la Bête.
Ceci est contraire à Apocalype 14 : 9 qui dit «Si quelqu'un adore la bête et son image, et reçoit une marque sur son front ou sur sa main, il boira, lui aussi, du vin de la fureur de Dieu, versé sans mélange dans la coupe de sa colère, et il sera tourmenté dans le feu et le soufre, devant les saints anges et devant l'Agneau.»
N'oublions pas que les chrétiens sont les ennemis #1 des Illuminati et de la Franc-Maconnerie et de leur chef Lucifer. Comme il se présente comme étant Jésus-Christ et que le faux enlèvement aura eu lieu, les gens n'y verront que du feu. SÉDUCTION et PIÈGE DIABOLIQUE. Les Illuminati, ne l'oublions pas, ont beaucoup de leaders chrétiens à leur service. Des centaines de pasteurs évangéliques ont enseigné et enseignent cette doctrine pré-tribulationniste et ne voit pas le danger de cet enseignement sur le peuple de Dieu. Ceux qui s'appuient sur cette vision du futur, ne voient pas la nécessité de se lever dans ces heures tragiques qui sont et qui viennent sur l'humanité car disent-ils «nous serons enlevés avant.» Cette doctrine amène une apathie complète dans le corps de Christ.
Les chrétiens devront retourner aux faits de base de leur salut, appuyé par les promesses de salut dans les mots de Dieu. Un faux Enlèvement causerait le sarclage spirituel le plus grand de tout le temps, la séparation du chrétien véritable et authentique qui lui continuera à faire confiance au Seigneur et en ses promesses.
Dans 2 Thessaloniciens 2 : 3-12, nous pouvons lire «Que personne ne vous séduise d'aucune manière ; car il faut que l'apostasie soit arrivée auparavant, et qu'on ait vu paraître l'homme impie, le fils de la perdition, l'adversaire qui s'élève au-dessus de tout ce qu'on appelle Dieu ou de ce qu'on adore ; il va jusqu'à s'asseoir dans le temple de Dieu, se proclamant lui-même Dieu. Ne vous souvenez-vous pas que je vous disais ces choses, lorsque j'étais encore chez vous? Et maintenant vous savez ce qui le retient, afin qu'il ne paraisse qu'en son temps.
Car le mystère de l'iniquité agit déjà ; il faut seulement que celui qui le retient encore ait disparu. Et alors paraîtra l'impie que le Seigneur Jésus détruira par le souffle de sa bouche, et qu'il écrasera par l'éclat de son avènement. L'apparition de cet impie se fera, par la puissance de Satan, avec toutes sortes de miracles, de signes et de prodiges mensongers, et avec toutes les séductions de l'iniquité pour ceux qui périssent parce qu'ils n'ont pas reçu l'amour de la vérité pour être sauvés.
Aussi Dieu leur envoie-t-il une puissance d'égarement, pour qu'ils croient au mensonge, afin que tous ceux qui n'ont pas cru à la vérité, mais qui ont pris plaisir à l'injustice, soient condamnés.»
Il faut donc que :
1. L'apostasie soit arrivée. Nous sommes pleinement dedans. De plus les prophéties de Matthieu 24, nous les vivons de plus en plus partout dans le monde ;
2. Et qu'on ait vu paraître l'homme impie ; n'est pas encore là mais nous voyons toute les religions annoncé l'arrivée imminente d'un grand leader ;
3. Les Juifs reconnaîtront l'Antichrist comme leur Messie [John 5:43] ;
4. Des Nouveaux planificateurs d'Ordre du Monde ont soigneusement étudié l'Ecriture sainte et la pensée juive contemporaine et ont conclu que leur Christ du Nouvel Âge doit apparaître à l'est de Jérusalem, paré comme les Juifs s'attendent à ce que leur Messie soit paré. La plus grande partie du plan du Nouvel Ordre Mondial se conforme vraiment à la prophétie de Bible afin que la séduction soit totale ;
5. Signera une alliance de sept ans avec Israël ce qui devrait donner le coup d'envoi à la dernière semaine prophétisée par le prophète Daniel, qui concerne le peuple juif ;
6. Il va jusqu'à s'asseoir dans le temple de Dieu ; Le temple n'est pas encore reconstruit mais tout est prêt ;
7. Les sept années seront des temps de grandes détresses pour les humains qui seront sur terre - 7 sceaux-7 trompettes- 7coupes + 7 tonerres dont le secret est maintenu jusqu'à ce jour, mais toutes sont des colères de Dieu pour ceux qui ont préféré croire aux mensonges de l'ennemi et qui, nous le voyons, détruit de plus en plus la création de Dieu, les humains et cette terre que Dieu nous a demandé de prendre soin (et non de l'adorer) ;
7. Il reste donc deux possibilités. Être enlevé peu de temps après la signature entre l'Antichrist et la reconstruction du 3e Temple de Jérusalem où au son de la dernière trompette qui précède les 7 tonnerres. Ce livre a été scellé jusqu'au temps choisis par Dieu. Apoc. 10
8. Retour physique de Jésus-Christ, le Roi des rois et le Seigneur des seigneurs, après les 7 ans du règne de l'Antichrist.
Remarquez que dans les discours des esprits-guides du Nouvel-Âge, ceux-ci ne parlent pas de la liberté de religion et ou d'athéisme. La nouvelle vision est imposée par la ruse et le mensonge qui place toutes les religions sur une base commune que les religions sont toutes égales. De plus, des temps viennent où tous, vous serez obligés de vous conformer à cette nouvelle réalité sous peine sévère si vous la refusez. Toute une différence entre la liberté que Dieu vous a donné de le suivre et entre celle de l'obligation de le suivre (Antichrist).
À cause de cet enseignement, les chrétiens que l'on identifie déjà comme des extrémistes religieux sont et seront de plus en plus considérés comme des faiseurs de troubles, empêchant le monde de Paix de prendre place.
Êtes-vous spirituellement prêt? Et vos familles? Protégez-vous adéquatement ceux que vous aimez? C'est la raison pourquoi ce ministère existe. Pour vous permettre à vous premièrement de comprendre le péril qui existe au devant de vous, et de vous aider à développer des stratégies afin de protéger vos proches que vous aimez.
Cette seule protection se trouve en la personne de Jésus de Nazareth qui n'a pas changé un iota à Sa Parole, contrairement à ceux qui essaient de vous faire croire le contraire. La protection qu'Il vous offre fera une éternelle différence, dépandant qui vous déciderez de servir et de suivre.
Certains m'ont fait part de leur position quand à l'Enlèvement avant l'arrivée de l'Antichrist. Le ministère de David Wilkerson et celui de Billy Graham et leur position présente m'ont assez secoué, je dois l'admettre. J'ai eu les yeux ouverts un peu plus. Mais avec ce que j'ai appris sur le PLAN des esprits-guides du Nouvel-Âge et de leur faux enlèvement, j'ai pris le temps de comprendre les deux côtés de la médaille.
Malheureusement tout ceci est gardé caché aux chrétiens et à la majorité des humains. La lecture et l'analyse sont essentielles afin de comprendre tout l'impact de cette guerre spirituelle qui se joue et qui essaie de nous entraîner dans les profondeurs de l'enfer!
Il existe donc deux plans bien précis. Un apporté par les esprits-guides du Nouvel-Âge et un apporté par les saints de la Parole de Dieu. Lequel choisirez-vous? L'Enlèvement est un événement majeur, une prohétie à venir pour le peuple de Dieu. Plusieurs se posent des questions sur ce sujet. Serons-nous enlevés avant, pendant ou après les tribulations? Il est bon pour chacun de nous de savoir ces choses car tous, nous serons confrontés à cet événement mondial dans très peu de temps.
Il existe donc deux plans bien précis. Un apporté par les esprits-guides du Nouvel-Âge et un apporté par les saints de la Parole de Dieu. Lequel choisirez-vous?
L'ANTÉCHRIST, «CE QUI LE RETIENT»
Voici une petite réflexion
2 Thessaloniciens 2:6 «Et maintenant vous savez ce qui le retient, afin qu 'il ne paraisse qu'en son temps.
7 Car le mystère de l'iniquité agit déjà; il faut seulement que celui qui le retient encore ait disparu.
8 Et alors paraîtra l'impie, que le Seigneur Jésus détruira par le souffle de sa bouche, et qu'il anéantira par l'éclat de son avènement.
9 L'apparition de cet impie se fera, par la puissance de Satan, avec toutes sortes de miracles, de signes et de prodiges mensongers»
A cause du texte de 2 Thess. 2:6 bien des chrétiens crois que Le Saint-Esprit présent dans les chrétiens, empêche l\'antéchrist de se manifester dans le monde en tant que Satan incarné dans un homme.
Qu'est ce qui doit vraiment disparaître pour que l'Antéchrist ai le chemin libre ?!
Il est écrit "VOUS SAVEZ CE QUI LE RETIENT" et non celui ou ceux qui le retient, donc ce n'est pas une ou des personnes et ce n'est pas notre présence sur terre ni l'Esprit Saint qui le retient, ainsi ce n'est pas la disparition des chrétiens par l'enlèvement qui sera la cause de l'apparition de l'Antéchrist.
Mais c'est LA FOI qui le retient (l'Antéchrist) ! Voila ce qui doit disparaître pour que l'Antéchrist ne soit plus retenue, car ce n'est pas l'enlèvement mais c'est la grande apostasie et ainsi la disparition de la foi sur terre (qui va réduire de facon radical le nombre de chrétiens) qui va permettre a l'Impie d'apparaîtra sur terre.
Le verset 7 complique les choses, la foi est la chose (verset 6), mais (pour le verset 7) sans la foi la personne qu'est le chrétien n'est plus car il a perdu sa foi, je pense que celui qui le retient c'est le chrétien avant qu'il ne perdre la foi.
RAPTURE TIMING MISUNDERSTANDING
It is also our belief that millions of Christians have been lulled into a false sense of security through what we see as a misunderstanding of the timing of the rapture of the Church. For over a hundred years conservative Bible teachers have been telling us that the rapture will occur before the antichrist is revealed, thus generating the general belief is that Christians will escape all the horrors of his reign. While we agree that we will be spared the actual tribulation period itself, there is no Bible teaching that assures us we will not have to endure his ascent to power! All that the Bible does tell us is that the tribulation period ("The Day of the Lord") will not begin until the apostasy and the revealing of the antichrist both take place (2 Thess.2:3). The Greek word translated "revealed" in this verse literally means "to take the lid off" thereby revealing the contents! As we understand this concept, the "revealing" of antichrist could be anything from the first incidence of his name appearing on the nightly news to his "confirming the covenant with Israel" (Dan.9:27)--which, by the way, will be the official start of the tribulation period. If his "revealing" coincides with the confirmation of the covenant, it will still meet the criteria of 2 Thess.2:3 in that it preceeded the onset of the tribulation period. And if this is the case, his rise to power--regardless of the time covered--could very well be viewed and endured by Christians prior to the rapture. The teaching that the rapture will take place prior to the revealing of the antichrist is found in in verses 7 and 8 of 2 Thessalonians 2, where we read the following:
"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth (hinders) will let until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming" (KJV, emphasis added).
The "he who now letteth" [hinders] is believed to be the Holy Spirit and He will continue to hinder the plan and program of Satan until the time is right and then "he" [the Holy Spirit] will be taken out of the way. Where the problem comes in is that the current prophecy experts insist that the Holy Spirit's restraining influence will be removed at the rapture when His presence (within the hearts of Christians) will leave along with them. [Stop! Read our discussion on the error of standard Bible Prophecy teaching, Confirmation of Major Discrepancies In Standard Bible Prophecy Seminar Teachings: Discussion With Dr. Timothy Ice, http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1935.cfm]
Now that you have read this above article, now please continue reading here:
While that certainly can be true, we must point out that it says the hindering influence of the Holy Spirit is "taken out of the way"--not "removed" as would be the case with the rapture scenario! God can [and we believe He will] simply take His restraining hand off world affairs and allow Satan to have free reign for his allotted time. If this is in fact the case, then the timing of the revealing of antichrist would not be tied in any way to the rapture of the Church and necessarily subsequent to it.
Further, the world must prophetically pass through the period known as the "last birth sorrows" (Matthew 24:8.) needed to "give birth" to Antichrist. We cover this subject thoroughly in NEWS1408http://cuttingedge.org/news/n1408.cfm , and encourage you to read it carefully and prayerfully. The Illuminati has prepared for exactly the kind of "birthpangs" of which Jesus foretold, and it is called, World War III, with an attack on Iraq possibly the trigger. Believe me, this time period may very well feel like Tribulation events for all of those called to live through it. As we stated in NEWS1729http://cuttingedge.org/news/n1729.cfm , our population is being desensitized, and conditioned, to accept the brutality the Illuminati has planned.
Christians who believe they will escape all manner of "bad stuff" because Jesus will rapture His beloved bride out of the world prior to the final birthpangs of Matthew 24:8 may wake up rudely one day, realizing they are heading straight into persecution and devastating events for which they are not prepared.
We take this position merely to point out that we must not consider the subject to be chiseled out in granite and thereby make the mistake of ruling out other possibilities. What if our maverick view of these events is correct and genuine Christians--those who have been taught that they would be raptured prior to all of this taking place--suddenly find themselves up to their eyeballs in end-time events which are clearly related to the antichrist and yet they are still here? What if our belief is correct and the devil stages a "false rapture" (NEWS2101 http://cuttingedge.org/news/n2101.cfm ) and people are told by the media that millions world-wide have disappeared, yet those who were positive that they were among God's elect are still here? Folks, this may not happen and we may be wrong--but for the love of God wake up to the realization of its possibility and ask Him to help you prepare for anything that might come. We certainly believe that the rapture of the Church is imminent, but it could be years away and who knows what the world, the flesh, and the devil might throw at us in the interim?
Every Christian should realize the world situation at this hour is one big pot of seething hatred just waiting for an opportune time to boil over. The Palestinians and other Muslim groups hate Israel with a passion that is bound to erupt in hostilities sooner or later--and the political climate is such that when this confrontation takes place, the rest of the world is likely to be sucked into it. If the production of oil in the Middle East were suddenly shut off because of Arab retaliation, the stock markets of the rest of the world would likely crash and the majority would find themselves to be destitute with no viable options. A society that just a few hours earlier had been thriving and everything looking rosy could quickly be turned into a unimaginable nightmare.
The time for repentance is speeding by like chaff whirled before the wind!] Therefore consider, before God’s decree brings forth [the curse upon you], before the time [to repent] is gone like the drifting chaff, before the fierce anger of the Lord comes upon you, yes, before the day of the wrath of the Lord comes upon you! Seek the Lord—inquire for Him, inquire of Him, and require Him [as the foremost necessity of your life]—all you humble of the land, who have acted in compliance with His revealed will and have kept His commandments; seek righteousness, seek humility—inquire for them, require them [as vital]. It may be you will be hidden in the day of the Lord’s anger. (Zephaniah 2:2-3; Parallel Bible, KJV/Amplified Bible Commentary)
Voici ce qu'en dit John 146 sur le site. Également, d'autres commentaires à lire. http://www.matrix54.com/forums/watchman/viewtopic.php?t=2770
The early church did not believe in the pre-trib rapture so why do most Christians believe it now? The Bible said the last days would be like this.
23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time. - Matthew 24:23-25 (NIV)
How do those that believe in the pre-trib rapture explain this verse, which could not be more clear, in my opinion:
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
. - Matthew 24:29-31 (NIV)
Which trumpet is this passage talking about? The same as the one talked about in these passages? I believe so.
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. - 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV)
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. - 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (KJV)
But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets." - Revelation 10:7 (NIV)
15The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:
"The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ,
and he will reign for ever and ever." 16And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17saying:
"We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.
18The nations were angry; and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your saints and those who reverence your name,
both small and great—
and for destroying those who destroy the earth." - Revelation 11:15-18
Jesus Christ (Yahshua) only returns ONCE. At the last trumpet. The last trumpet signals the return of the Messiah and the end of the tribulation. There is no pretribulation rapture. The Bible does not support that view.
ENJOY OUR GROWING LIST OF TEACHINGS ON THE TRUTH OF THE "RAPTURE".
This watchman ascribes that the pre-trib rapture is a fable. Folks, now more than ever:
Study to show yourselves approved unto God and understand this matter.
Sorry No Rapture but Persecution is Coming - Today's western church is asleep. Read http://www.watchmanscry.com/article_persecution.html
The Rapture Revealed Part 1 - The rapture, what is it? So many images come to mind don’t they? We have seen them in movies. Read about them in books, and heard preachers describing various “scary” rapture scenarios. Unfortunately, these popular images of the “rapture” are the cause of Christians not knowing the REAL truth about this subject.. Readhttp://www.watchmanscry.com/article_rapture_prt2.html
The Rapture Revealed Part 2 - In this lesson we are going to discuss an event that will occur right after the “resurrection.”.. Read http://www.watchmanscry.com/article_rapture_pre_mid_post.html
The Rapture: Pre, Mid, or Post - It is one of the most difficult topics to discuss with Christians. And one of the most misunderstood. The popular teaching of the pre-tribulation rapture theory is also one of the most heavily defended part of Christian doctrine. While at the same time the least studied. ... Read http://www.watchmanscry.com/article_rapture_pre_mid_post.html
RAPTURE TIMING VIRTUAL DEBATE
After agreeing to debate the rapture timing in November 2002, Dr. Ice has postponed the debate three times (until after the first of the year, until May 2003, and now indefinitely). Apparently the debate is not a priority for Dr. Ice. Since The Last Trumpet readers have been kept in suspense for 6 months, I have decided to begin the debate without Dr. Ice's direct participation. Dr. Ice has many published articles presenting the Pre-Trib Research Center's perspective. I have decided to debate Dr. Ice indirectly by presenting rebuttals to those articles. I have informed Dr. Ice that he is welcome to send in a response to each of my rebuttals if he so desires, and I will be happy to post them.
Read more : http://geocities.com/~lasttrumpet/debate2.html
A QUESTION FOR PREMILLENNIAL DISPENSATIONAL RAPTURE BELIEVERS: EXPLAIN THE FIFTH SEAL IN REVELATION!
Read also : Daniel 7:21, Matthiew 24:9, Revelation 13:7
Posted by Job on September 25, 2009
Revelation 6:9-11 reads
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
The Word of God for the elect people of God. Glory be to God.
For my premillennial dispensational brethren who believe in a pretribulation (or prewrath) rapture that spares the church from the time of sorrow, please explain this text. Who are those slain for the Word of God? Are they Christians? And when will these Christians be slain for their testimony? Does it refer to those believers slain in times past, whether in the Old Testament or at the time that Revelation was written? Or does it refer to believers slain during the great tribulation? (If so, how can any Christian stand under persecution, even martyrdom, without being emboldened by the Holy Spirit, which according to premillennial dispensational doctrine has to be taken from the earth along with the church? Please recall the difference between Peter and the apostles before the Comforter – cowering and fearful and running from their lives – and afterwards – bold and brave witnesses even unto death. As a matter of fact Peter himself went from being the worst – the one who denied Christ three times – to being the boldest. And how can anyone even be saved during the great tribulation without the work of the Holy Spirit? Recall: the Holy Spirit was indeed present during the time of the Old Testament saints. Indeed, the Bible states that the earth’s very existence cannot so much as even be sustained without the Spirit of God.) Or does it refer to believers slain during all ages, from the first (Abel) until the last before the return of Jesus Christ?
To interpret this passage with scrïpture, let us go to another one in Revelation that touches the martyrdom of the saints, which is Revelation 18:24. Please recall that this chapter refers to the fall of Babylon, which since the Tower of Babel incident and particularly since the destruction of the temple in 586 has been used to symbolize people and systems that rebel against and oppose God and persecute His elect covenant people, and that Revelation extends this symbolism with personification, describing all that opposes God as a harlot (prostitute), which in this verse is called “her”: And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. Now as much as I love my King James Version, allow me to quibble with their translation of “kai” to “and” in the phrase “and of all that were slain upon the earth.” Many times, “kai” is just used for emphasis, as an amplifier of degree or a focus of attention. This text should probably read:
“And in her [Babylon] was found the blood of prophets and of saints, indeed all [prophets and saints] that were slain upon the earth.”
However, if you go with the King James Version, which granted carries much more weight and authority than my own, and all which follow its tradition on that text, then “and of all that were slain upon the earth” simply means that in Babylon was the blood of every person that has been murdered, all innocent blood that has been shed. This means that the prior clause “And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints” means that “the prophets and saints” (a New Testament idiom which refers to old covenant and new covenant believers) which means that the blood of Stephen and all other Christian martyrs ever since is contained in Babylon. So with reference to the elect the meaning is the same: the blood of everyone killed because of their faith in God is in Babylon.
So, if we interpret Revelation 6:9-11 with Revelation 18:24, when the fifth seal was opened the martyred souls viewed under the altar should very likely be interpreted to include every Christian martyr since Stephen. This would support the idea of a church that has always been under continuous tribulation. Such an interpretation would be consistent with, indeed fulfill the words of Jesus Christ in John 15:18-20.
If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. But all these things will they do unto you for my name’s sake, because they know not him that sent me.
The Word of God for the people of God. Glory be to God.
Now one can hardly claim that those words were only aimed at the apostles. Those words are for all Christians for all time. So what basis is there for believing that there will be a rapture to save the church from a persecution that A) Jesus Christ said that we would face and B) Jesus Christ sent the Holy Spirit to empower us to withstand? Now this is not an endorsement of the historicist, preterist or amillennial position that there will be no seven year literal great tribulation. Instead, it is to say that if there will be such a seven year literal great tribulation, the church will be present for it just as it has been present for all other tribulations, the “lesser” tribulations.
Now the prewrath (and mid-wrath) rapture adherent does have Revelation 3:10, which reads “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth”, in his favor. However, that could be fulfilled in a number of ways, including 1) a place of refuge (which ironically rapture believers commonly propose will exist for those who will saved during the great tribulation … again these people will have to be saved despite the absence of a church to preach the gospel or a Holy Spirit to perform regeneration) or 2) death. Do not let the “death” option astonish you, but instead study the scrïptures, especially the Old Testament but also in the New Testament. It is a consistent theme that death is a way of being preserved, saved, spared from times of great evil … to be absent from the troubles of this world and present with God! Perhaps the best example of this is the death of Abijah, son of the wicked king Jeroboam, who died according to God’s will so that he would not be corrupted by Jeroboam and also not share in their judgment in 1 Kings 14. A New Testament example: at the time that he wrote Philippians 1:20-26, Paul viewed death as being removed from the extremely trying circumstances that he was living and exchanging it for a better fate. In that passage Paul stated “to die is gain”, but it appears that the rapture adherents have transformed it into “to be raptured is gain.”
So, the idea that there must be a rapture in order for Christians to be spared martyrdom seems to be inconsistent with Biblical revelation. It is also an idea that only makes sense for Christians living in the west. Practically everywhere else in the world, Christians face persecution: marginalization, poverty, disease, imprisonment, death. There are two doctrinal systems that have the effect of promoting the idea western Christians should have no part in what Christians in Indonesia, China, Iran, Palestine (and Israel!), India and Mexico (where Roman Catholic/pagan syncretists are persecuting Protestants) by simple right of geography of birth: pretribulation rapture and covenant theology. Pretribulation rapture teaches that Christians not currently under persecution now will never have to face it, because persecution will only come to “the good parts of the world” (i.e. “Christian nations” or “western nations” or “non-socialist nations” … you know, what Glenn Beck was referring to) when the anti-Christ (which 8% of New Jersey residents regard Obama to be) takes over it.
Now ask yourselves … why is it that Christians can be persecuted in some places (including Israel … and read this too!) now without the anti-Christ, but it requires the anti-Christ to happen in others (especially America)? Or that the saints in other places (and times, including in the west … remember the 30 Years War and the Anabaptists?) are not spared persecution, but only the modern American saints are? Only the idea that contemporary western (especially American and possibly British!) Christians are somehow better than Christians living in other times and places, and this fact would be due to America having some special status before God as a unique elect covenant nation, giving us special status within the Body of Christ. Of course, the Bible makes it clear in the Roman and Corinthian epistles that there is no special group or people with a special status, special favor, or special standing before God in the Body of Christ, but instead that we are one Body. Further, the Bible makes it clear that those who are accounted greater according to rank or authority (not standing or value) demonstrate this through being servant roles that cause us to A) serve those who are of lesser rank and authority and B) endure even greater persecution than those who are of lesser rank and authority. So, even if America did have some special standing before God, instead of our being wealthy decadent privileged Laodiceans, we would be poor, oppressed and serving everybody else! If you deny this, read the Beatitudes of Jesus Christ!
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Keep in mind, the version in Luke reads “Blessed are the POOR!”)
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
The Word of God for the people of God. Glory be to God.
Now earlier I mentioned the covenant theologians, from whom the modern concept of the “Christian nation” originated. Covenant theologians believe – or at least believed – that people in “Christian nations” would or should be spared persecution only because in a church-state Christians would control the government, economy, military, police, and religion in a theocracy after the manner of Old Testament Israel. That is why such extreme theonomists and reconstructionists as Gary North and Rousas John (R. J.) Rushdoony deny that the Beatitudes and the Sermon on the Mount apply to Christians, instead stating that it only applied to Jews living in that time. (Curiously, hyperdispensationalists believe the same.) While I believe the covenant theology position to be in error, this statement is aimed primarily at premillennnial dispensationalists.
So if America were this special, Christian nation, it would be marked by our poverty and service, not by our decadent delusions of religious nobility which makes us believe that we are somehow exempt from the sufferings of Christians living in Belarus or Namibia, or for that matter the Christians of the early church. After all, when Paul wrote his statement insisting that those in the Body of Christ were equals, the statements were direct AGAINST two groups of people: the Jewish Christians in the Roman church and the wealthy Christians in the Corinthian church. The Jewish Christians regarded themselves to be superior to the Gentile Christians because of nationality, and the wealthy Corinthian Christians regarded themselves as superior to the poorer believers because of their riches. The Holy Spirit inspired Paul to tell both groups that they were wrong. So, then, how can we justify believing that a rapture will come and rescue us from the type of persecutions and deaths at the hands of Muslims that are going on all over the Middle East, Asia and Africa right now, such as the two million Christians that were killed in Sudan, many of whom were tortured, raped, doused with gasoline and set on fire, had their limbs chopped off, or were sold as slaves because they refused to renounce Christianity?
Ironically, the world, including the media, the activists, and the government of our own “Christian nation”, did their level best to ignore this genocide, choosing instead to focus on Muslims murdering other Muslims in Darfur. And let us not forget that the term for which the word genocide was originally invented and applied to, that of the Armenians by the Turks, is still not recognized as such by the U.N. or by the government of our “Christian nation.” It is still more ironic when you consider that the Armenian genocide happened in the same general area that the letters in Revelation were sent, in the Turkey region. That persecution kicked off what was the bloodiest period of Christian persecution in history, the 20th century, that saw 45.5 million Christians killed!
So if there were any geographical or political entity within the Body of Christ that had special status, it would be those Christians because of their poverty and persecution who would come first, not us . It is those to whom the Beatitudes of Jesus Christ were addressed, and premillennial dispensationalism completely rejects that truth for the belief that the rapture will save Christians not yet under persecution from ever having to experience it because the saints who have it easier are the ones who fulfill Revelation 3:10! Never mind that the rich church that was not facing persecution was Laodicea, and the church that Revelation 3:10 was addressed to was Philadelphia. Why was the promise of Revelation 3:10 given to the Philadelphians? It is in Revelation 3:8, which reads “I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.” The Philadelphia Christians were being persecuted, and similar to the Sudanese Christians, they refused to yield to the persecution by denying Jesus Christ. In other words, they refused to do the same as the apostle Peter did THREE TIMES before he was empowered by the Holy Spirit, yet dispensationalism teaches that this Holy Spirit will be taken away, and those converted during the great tribulation will have to face the greatest time of sorrows ever without it, and will yet somehow stand? How? Why? Because of their free will? Or because of their inherently good human nature untainted by original sin? Followers of Reformed/Calvinist believers in the rapture like John MacArthur and Albert Pendarvis (the latter’s bookstore sells the Scofield Reference Bible) have to answer these questions! In any event, those who claim that Revelation 3:10 refers to Christians being raptured to escape persecution have to deal with the fact that the text was in reference to a Philadelphia church that was enduring it!
Make no mistake. I believe in a bodily literal return of Jesus Christ which I believe will occur after a literal great tribulation which will include a literal and personal anti-Christ. However, I also believe that the church will endure this tribulation, and that we need to be preparing ourselves and those who will follow us in the faith for it in a manner that is consistent with scrïpture as opposed to believing that we – or our WESTERN descendants – will have an experience of escaping it that will be unique to Christians living in other times and places. At the very least, someone must explain why western Christians alone should enjoy this pleasure!
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